High,

can anybody point me out which document could help me out with something that I
thought might be very simple:
Is there an objective way of telling who's at war if no party declares it? I mean, if country A does have troops in country B and country C opens fire at those troops, is it a war on A or on B, both, neither or is it more complicated?



Tschoe mit Oe
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

High,

can anybody point me out which document could help me out with something
that thought might be very simple:
Is there an objective way of telling who's at war if no party declares it? I mean, if country A does have troops in country B and country C opens fire at those troops, is it a war on A or on B, both, neither or is it more complicated?

If country A has troops in country B then that is an act of war.

If country C is firing on those troops then country C is helping to defend country B from country A, or at least trying to.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

can anybody point me out which document could help me out with something that I thought might be very simple:
Is there an objective way of telling who's at war if no party declares
it? I mean, if country A does have troops in country B and country C
opens fire at those troops, is it a war on A or on B, both, neither or
is it more complicated?

It's a fake war that allows Democrats and Zelenski to funnel money back to themselves.

The real war is a brainwashing war, and the media is winning it. They say that you've got to (A) dump billions (blindy) into a failed state, plus start a war with Russia, or (B) Take the walk of shame for being a "Putin pal."

There is NO option (C) either; it's one of those 2 things or it's nothing.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

On 12-27-22 17:45, Aaron Thomas <=-
spoke to Gerhard Strangar about Re: Who's at war <=-

It's a fake war that allows Democrats and Zelenski to funnel money
back to themselves.

That is a pretty strong statement. What evidence to you have to support
it?

The real war is a brainwashing war, and the media is winning it. They
say that you've got to (A) dump billions (blindy) into a failed state,

What failed state? Ukraine seems to be doing fairly well when compaired
to Putin's estimate of how his war would go.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 23:58:43, 27 Dec 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Am 27 Dec 22 10:48:18 schrob Alan Ianson an Gerhard Strangar zum Thema
<Who's at war>

If country A has troops in country B then that is an act of war.

Apart from the possibility of having allies, which document says so?



Tschoe mit Oe
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

Am 27 Dec 22 17:45:40 schrob Aaron Thomas an Gerhard Strangar zum Thema
<Re: Who's at war>

The real war is a brainwashing war, and the media is winning it. They
say that you've got to (A) dump billions (blindy) into a failed state, plus start a war with Russia, or (B) Take the walk of shame for being a "Putin pal."

There is NO option (C) either; it's one of those 2 things or it's
nothing.

While your statement is completely unrelated to my question, what are the other
options that you'd like to hear from the media? And why do you think noone is promoting them on the media?



Tschoe mit Oe
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

If country A has troops in country B then that is an act of war.

Apart from the possibility of having allies, which document says so?

What do you want a document for?

If country A sends a military force into country B and begins some kind of military operations that is an act of war.

Look up "war" in the dictionary, that will give you some documentation.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

It's a fake war that allows Democrats and Zelenski to funnel money back to themselves.

That is a pretty strong statement. What evidence to you have to support it?

The proof is in the fact that Biden did nothing when the conflict began; he waited until there were dead bodies to back him up, before he lifted a finger. Now, since he waited too long, his solution is "fund somebody else's war against mighty Russia."

What failed state? Ukraine seems to be doing fairly well when compaired to Putin's estimate of how his war would go.

Ukraine is a failed state. They have a "leader" who knew an invasion was imminent, but yet he let his people die. This all comes after he let Biden manipulate his "justice system." Failure build on top of more failure.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

While your statement is completely unrelated to my question, what are
the other options that you'd like to hear from the media? And why do you think noone is promoting them on the media?

I'd like for the media to keep the facts in a handy place, so that way they can refer back to them when their imaginations start to run wild.

Fact #1: Biden has no diplomacy skills; he let this war happen.
Fact #2: Biden's motto: "send money, but not troops, and not oversight."
Fact #3: Trump's "nice guy" attitude with Putin could have averted all this Fact #4: The media (and covid) told America to vote for Biden.

Now, while having all that info tattooed on their foreheads, the media ought
to do some explaining about the role that they played in the creation of this war and why they did it;

Was it because Trump's racist?
Americans have too much money?
Ukraine had too many alive people?

Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, after thinking about all this, my conclusion is that Democrats love money, and what better way to get their hands on billions than to fund a war with no oversight? Zelenski can say "I spend 10 billion of it on biological weapons so I could give cancer to all the Russian soldiers." But none of that; we have no clue as to where the money went, all we know is that they want more of it and that they ain't gonna tell us nothin about what they're spending it on. Smells fishy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Fact #1: Biden has no diplomacy skills; he let this war happen.

This is not and never was Biden's war. That was a choice Russia made.

Fact #2: Biden's motto: "send money, but not troops, and not oversight."

Do you want, were you thinking that Biden should send troops?

Fact #3: Trump's "nice guy" attitude with Putin could have averted all this

No, Trump would have made an even bigger mess.

Fact #4: The media (and covid) told America to vote for Biden.

It was neither the media nor covid's fault that Trump lost the election.

Now, while having all that info tattooed on their foreheads, the media ought to do some explaining about the role that they played in the creation of this war and why they did it;

How is "the media" responsible for "this war"?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 12-28-22 17:16, Aaron Thomas <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Who's at war <=-

It's a fake war that allows Democrats and Zelenski to funnel money
back to themselves.

That is a pretty strong statement. What evidence to you have to support it?

The proof is in the fact that Biden did nothing when the conflict
began; he waited until there were dead bodies to back him up, before he lifted a finger. Now, since he waited too long, his solution is "fund somebody else's war against mighty Russia."

Rubbish fake news. Tell us what you would have done.

What failed state? Ukraine seems to be doing fairly well when compaired to Putin's estimate of how his war would go.

Ukraine is a failed state. They have a "leader" who knew an invasion
was imminent, but yet he let his people die. This all comes after he
let Biden manipulate his "justice system." Failure build on top of more failure.

More rubbish. How would you have handled the situation?

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)




... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:07:25, 29 Dec 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Am 28 Dec 22 05:33:48 schrob Alan Ianson an Gerhard Strangar zum Thema
<Who's at war>

If country A has troops in country B then that is an act of war.

Apart from the possibility of having allies, which document says so?

What do you want a document for?

Because I'd like to read it instead of getting opinions from people who haven't
read it, either.



Tschoe mit Oe
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

Am 28 Dec 22 17:23:34 schrob Aaron Thomas an Gerhard Strangar zum Thema
<Re: Who's at war>

While your statement is completely unrelated to my question, what
are the other options that you'd like to hear from the media? And
why do you think noone is promoting them on the media?

I'd like for the media to keep the facts in a handy place, so that way they can refer back to them when their imaginations start to run wild.

Fact #1: Biden has no diplomacy skills; he let this war happen.
Fact #2: Biden's motto: "send money, but not troops, and not oversight." Fact #3: Trump's "nice guy" attitude with Putin could have averted all this Fact #4: The media (and covid) told America to vote for Biden.

Now, while having all that info tattooed on their foreheads, the media ought to do some explaining about the role that they played in the creation of this war and why they did it;

Was it because Trump's racist?
Americans have too much money?
Ukraine had too many alive people?

Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, after thinking about all this, my conclusion is that Democrats love money, and what better way to get their hands on billions than to fund a war with no oversight? Zelenski can say "I spend 10
billion of it on biological weapons so I could give cancer to all the Russian soldiers." But none of that; we have no clue as to where the
money went, all we know is that they want more of it and that they ain't gonna tell us nothin about what they're spending it on. Smells fishy.

Sorry for quoting all of what you wrote, but I fail to see any of the other options you said you are missing from the media. Moreover, your "fact #3" is just an assumption, which you even point out by using "could".
Is your third option hidden in "fact #2", would you have sent troups to Ukraine
before the invasion of 2022? Then we'd be back to my original question, which you couldn't answer.
What do you mean by "covid told America to vote for Biden"?



Tschoe mit Oe
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

If country A has troops in country B then that is an act of war.

Apart from the possibility of having allies, which document says so?

What do you want a document for?

Because I'd like to read it instead of getting opinions from people who haven't read it, either.

I hope you find your document.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

The proof is in the fact that Biden did nothing when the conflict began; he waited until there were dead bodies to back him up, before lifted a finger. Now, since he waited too long, his solution is "fund somebody else's war against mighty Russia."

Rubbish fake news. Tell us what you would have done.

What's fake about my summary? It seems accurate to me. I would have negotiated with Putin and Zelenski. "Putin wants to annex your country and if you don't let him do it, civilians will die, so hand over the keys before someone gets hurt, because you can't afford a war and neither can the USA."

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Sorry for quoting all of what you wrote, but I fail to see any of the other options you said you are missing from the media. Moreover, your "fact #3" is just an assumption, which you even point out by using "could". Is your third option hidden in "fact #2", would you have sent troups to Ukraine before the invasion of 2022? Then we'd be back to my original question, which you couldn't answer.
What do you mean by "covid told America to vote for Biden"?

Keep in mind that the media and false accusations against Trump are what led
to his removal from power; the voters didn't take that stuff lightly.

The media did all this, in this order:
Installed the Biden Shadow Regime 1.0
Watched/reported about the Russian troop deployment along the Ukranian border Watched/reported about civilians being tortured and blown to bits Watched/reported about billions of American taxpayer dollars handed to Ukraine

But they leave important questions unanswered:
Have you ever played rock, paper, scissors?
How does paper defeat nuclear armed Russia?
How will the USA funding Russia's opposition affect our int'l relationship?
How much Russian territory has Ukraine conquered so far?
How did we "outspend Russia" but yet we're still losing the war?
Why are Democrats opposed to oversight on billions of dollars?
How does David Muir keep such a straight face?

You don't have to try to answer all that, but my point is that the media doesn't answer questions or cover stories that could incriminate themselves or the Biden Shadow Regime.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Am 29 Dec 22 17:48:39 schrob Aaron Thomas an Gerhard Strangar zum Thema
<Re: Who's at war>

But they leave important questions unanswered:
Have you ever played rock, paper, scissors?

I have.

How does paper defeat nuclear armed Russia?

I've only played the classic version without Spock, lizard, but I'd assume it covers the silo, just like it covers the well. ;-)

How much Russian territory has Ukraine conquered so far?

Ukraine is defending it's own territory, I'd not call it conquering when you're
regaining control, but AFAIK it's about 70,000 square kilomters.

How did we "outspend Russia" but yet we're still losing the war?

Assuming by "we" you mean the USA, you're not losing it, you're not even in it.
It's a war between Russia and Ukraine.

How does David Muir keep such a straight face?

I don't even know who that is.

You don't have to try to answer all that, but my point is that the media doesn't answer questions or cover stories that could incriminate themselves or the Biden Shadow Regime.

I'm still wondering what the "option C" is that you are missing from the media.
Do you know another option? Are you just missing on "your" media, did you check
foreign media?



Tschoe mit Oe
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

Am 29 Dec 22 17:26:43 schrob Aaron Thomas an Dale Shipp zum Thema
<Re: Who's at war>

The proof is in the fact that Biden did nothing when the

conflict AT> began; he waited until there were dead bodies to
back him up, before AT> lifted a finger. Now, since he waited too
long, his solution is "fund AT> somebody else's war against
mighty Russia."
Rubbish fake news. Tell us what you would have done.

What's fake about my summary?

The timeline. The conflict began in 2013, the Russians invaded Crimea in 2014. Biden became president in 2021.

It seems accurate to me. I would have
negotiated with Putin and Zelenski. "Putin wants to annex your country
and if you don't let him do it, civilians will die, so hand over the
keys before someone gets hurt, because you can't afford a war and
neither can the USA."

The people of Ukraine don't seem to want another Wiktor Janukowytsch.



Tschoe mit Oe
Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

On 12-29-22 17:26, Aaron Thomas <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Who's at war <=-

The proof is in the fact that Biden did nothing when the conflict
began; he waited until there were dead bodies to
back him up, before
lifted a finger. Now, since he waited too long,
his solution is "fund
somebody else's war against mighty Russia."

Rubbish fake news. Tell us what you would have done.

What's fake about my summary? It seems accurate to me.

You say that Biden did nothing when the conflict began. That is false.
He (with other partners in EU and NATO) imposed severe sanctions on
Russia.

It is not just somebody else's war against Russia. If Russia was
allowed to annex Ukraine without serious opposition, then his next move
might be to play the same thing on other east European countries. His
goal is to recreate the Russia empire of old, or at least the equivant
of the USSR.

I would have
negotiated with Putin and Zelenski. "Putin wants to annex your country
and if you don't let him do it, civilians will die, so hand over the
keys before someone gets hurt, because you can't afford a war and
neither can the USA."

Really! You would just turn over the keys and surrender without
protest. That would empower Putin to do even more.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)



... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:02:40, 31 Dec 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 12-29-22 17:48, Aaron Thomas <=-
spoke to Gerhard Strangar about Re: Who's at war <=-

How much Russian territory has Ukraine conquered so far?

None -- but they have regained Ukrainian territory from the Russians.

How did we "outspend Russia" but yet we're still losing the war?

Outspending the USSR is how Regan caused the collapse of the USSR.
Ukraine is not losing the war in Ukraine.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:10:09, 31 Dec 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

How much Russian territory has Ukraine conquered so far?

Ukraine is defending it's own territory, I'd not call it conquering when you're regaining control, but AFAIK it's about 70,000 square kilomters.

Ukraine lost the war the day that the 1st Ukranian civilian died while trying to defend their home from Russian soldiers. They lost the war the day that
they lost control of their own territory, and they lost the war the day that Joe Biden was crowned king of the USA.

How did we "outspend Russia" but yet we're still losing the war?

Assuming by "we" you mean the USA, you're not losing it, you're not even in it. It's a war between Russia and Ukraine.

When the USA funds a war, and everybody knows about it, the USA is *in* a war. Russia will retalliate when the moment is right

If the USA wanted to "stay out of the war," then they shouldn't have sided with Zelenski, and they shouldn't have sent him billions of dollars for him to piss away at the casino.

I'm still wondering what the "option C" is that you are missing from media. Do you know another option? Are you just missing on "your" media, did you check foreign media?

I apologize, I've lost focus. What do you mean by "option C" for the media?

Is there any point in me checking foreign media? Aren't they all "in this together" like they always say? ;)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

What's fake about my summary?

The timeline. The conflict began in 2013, the Russians invaded Crimea in 2014. Biden became president in 2021.

They invaded Crimea in 2014, when Joe Biden was Vice President of the USA,
the Russian effort was on hiatus while Trump was president, but as soon as Joe became president in 2021, Russian troops were deployed along the Ukranian border. I'm not trying to BS you - did the media forget to tell you all that?

negotiated with Putin and Zelenski. "Putin wants to annex your country and if you don't let him do it, civilians will die, so hand over the keys before someone gets hurt, because you can't afford a war and neither can the USA."

The people of Ukraine don't seem to want another Wiktor Janukowytsch.

Why not? It's Zelenski who refuses to get a job. He wants to be "president of Ukraine," but Ukraine is no longer in service. And he should swallow his pride and get a real job. And he should apologize for being the world's worst leader.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

What's fake about my summary? It seems accurate to me.

You say that Biden did nothing when the conflict began. That is false.
He (with other partners in EU and NATO) imposed severe sanctions on Russia.

Not severe enough. It was tough talk.

It is not just somebody else's war against Russia. If Russia was
allowed to annex Ukraine without serious opposition, then his next move might be to play the same thing on other east European countries. His goal is to recreate the Russia empire of old, or at least the equivant
of the USSR.

Our "opposition" should have ended with those "severe santions" you mentioned. At least at that point we weren't embroiled in a war. Now we are though.

Billions in aid is working about as effectively as Biden's "diplomacy."

If what you say is correct about Russia trying to rebuild the USSR, then why are we relying on the weak, dilapidated, failed state of Ukraine to curb it
for us? It's like giving a homeless person a bunch of cash and telling them "the whole world is depending on you to fight off the Russians," and then they go to the liquor store.

negotiated with Putin and Zelenski. "Putin wants to annex your countr and if you don't let him do it, civilians will die, so hand over the keys before someone gets hurt, because you can't afford a war and neither can the USA."

Really! You would just turn over the keys and surrender without
protest. That would empower Putin to do even more.

We can't defend Ukraine by throwing money at them. We tried, and it didn't work. Wanna throw some more money around?

Our military can defend Ukraine better than our money can. However, there's probably some concern about our military going over there and finding out the truth about where all our money went.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)

Am 31 Dec 22 04:55:26 schrob Aaron Thomas an Gerhard Strangar zum Thema
<Re: Who's at war>

Ukraine lost the war the day that the 1st Ukranian civilian died while trying to defend their home from Russian soldiers.

Okay, let's go with your "unconventional" definition of losing.
Wikipedia says that 68 civilians died in Perl Harbour, which means the USA lost
World War II. Switzerland even lost it without being in it in the first place. For the Vietnam War, Wikipedia lists dead Vietnamese civilians, but no dead U.S. civilians, so both North and South Vietnam lost, the USA did not. Or ist it the Confederate States of America?

When the USA funds a war, and everybody knows about it, the USA is *in*
a war. Russia will retalliate when the moment is right
If the USA wanted to "stay out of the war," then they shouldn't have
sided with Zelenski, and they shouldn't have sent him billions of
dollars for him to piss away at the casino.

Selenskyj got elected in 2019, like I mentioned before, the conflict is older than that. And the Trump administration sent weapons to Ukraine before stating that Putin was a clever guy for invading the country that they sent the weapons
to.

I'm still wondering what the "option C" is that you are missing from
media. Do you know another option? Are you just missing on "your"
media, did you check foreign media?

I apologize, I've lost focus. What do you mean by "option C" for the media?

2022-12-27 you wrote this:

The real war is a brainwashing war, and the media is winning it. They
say that you've got to (A) dump billions (blindy) into a failed state,
plus start a war with Russia, or (B) Take the walk of shame for being
a "Putin pal."
There is NO option (C) either; it's one of those 2 things or it's
nothing.

So, what's the option C that you are missing?



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Gerhard
---
* Origin: (2:240/2188.575)

Am 31 Dec 22 05:01:16 schrob Aaron Thomas an Gerhard Strangar zum Thema
<Re: Who's at war>

The timeline. The conflict began in 2013, the Russians invaded
Crimea in 2014. Biden became president in 2021.

They invaded Crimea in 2014, when Joe Biden was Vice President of the
USA,

Can you name some of Bidens actions related to Ukraine when he was in charge because of being vice president?

the Russian effort was on hiatus while Trump was president, but as
soon as Joe became president in 2021, Russian troops were deployed along the Ukranian border. I'm not trying to BS you - did the media forget to tell you all that?

Can you be more specific? What days are you talking about? Because Reuters reported about tanks and howitzers being moved to Kuzminsky and Matveev Kurgan on 2015-05-28.
In 2020-03 the OSCE reported 700 cease fire violations per day (opposed to 800 per year in 2019) https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/449458

And what you're saing is: Nothing was wrong while the car was heading for the concrete wall at 250 km/h in Autopilot mode, but as soon as the driver slammed on the brakes, it crashed into that wall; so it's the driver's fault.

Why not? It's Zelenski who refuses to get a job. He wants to be
"president of Ukraine," but Ukraine is no longer in service.

Which day was the last one?



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Gerhard
---
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